Dungons and Dragons Documents- ONLINE!!

[Cuthbert]

TWO THINGS:

THING THE FIRST

I thought you guys might be interested in reading a few of the early session notes people used to keep for this campaign, so I threw them on my website. They're all docs and rtfs, but looking at them, I don't think they're exactly going to kill my bandwidth if a few people leaf through them.

I have Cuthbert's bio, which is in three parts for some reason, the early session notes that Paul took and the ones I took up until session 18 (I forget where his end and mine begin), and one set of notes that Josh took (Fironisnotes.doc). The formatting is totally fucked up in his for some reason and I really don't want to take the effort to fix it

WARNING: the writing is really bad on most of these, particularly in Cuthbert's bio. It's amazing what a difference five years of practice and seven books makes. I could try and excuse myself by saying that these were quick and I didn't spend a lot of effort on them, which is true, but that honestly doesn't make up for it. If you're going to submit yourselves to them, start with the later sessions and work your back, probably. If you ever show these to anyone and claim they are written by me, I will kill you and any person who has seen them, and then kill you again. The "Dragon Warrior" themed one is my favorite.

icesucky.com/cuthbertandfriends/

I also put Don's drawings up, and if anyone has any other session notes, you can send them to me via e-mail and I'll put those up too.

THING NUMBAH TWO

If you want to start looking at my gods and kingdoms, I put them up as well. I don't know what fucking lame-ass programs you all use (they are all lame-ass, trust me, I'm a writer), so they're in doc, odt and rtf. The formatting will probably be a LITTLE screwy on you're side, but not enough to make them unreadable. I don't have a scanner, so I made a really quick, crappy version of my world map in the GIMP and put that up too.

icesucky.com/NamelessPilgrimage/

[Paul]

I have session notes from 1-93 in three word documents. I was planning on posting them for people to seebut this seems like a better idea. Ill send them to you sometime soon. Many of the notes I wrote were written long after the session that they refer to so some will be brief and lacking detail. They do however tell everything that happened since session 1.

[Cuthbert]

tasslehoff220 said:

I have session notes from 1-93 in three word documents. I was planning on posting them for people to seebut this seems like a better idea. Ill send them to you sometime soon. Many of the notes I wrote were written long after the session that they refer to so some will be brief and lacking detail. They do however tell everything that happened since session 1.

Oh, cool. I guess what to do is when we stop, send them to me, because otherwise we'll just be adding bits and pieces of them as we go anyway. Also, if you have anyone else's character backgrounds or session notes (I think most people printed them and gave them to you, so I guess you probably don't), then you can send those too. Send them to my gmail and not the icesucky account, because my POP3 fucking sucks with attachments for some reason.

[Dibígo LeMuze]

admin said:

If you want to start looking at my gods and kingdoms, I put them up as well. I don't know what fucking lame-ass programs you all use (they are all lame-ass, trust me, I'm a writer), so they're in doc, odt and rtf. The formatting will probably be a LITTLE screwy on you're side, but not enough to make them unreadable. I don't have a scanner, so I made a really quick, crappy version of my world map in the GIMP and put that up too.

icesucky.com/NamelessPilgrimage/

Looks like this should be a new forum category, perhaps named Nameless Pilgrimage or so, living outside the "Paul's Groups" category?

[Cuthbert]

ravu said:

admin said:

If you want to start looking at my gods and kingdoms, I put them up as well. I don't know what fucking lame-ass programs you all use (they are all lame-ass, trust me, I'm a writer), so they're in doc, odt and rtf. The formatting will probably be a LITTLE screwy on you're side, but not enough to make them unreadable. I don't have a scanner, so I made a really quick, crappy version of my world map in the GIMP and put that up too.

icesucky.com/NamelessPilgrimage/

Looks like this should be a new forum category, perhaps named Nameless Pilgrimage or so, living outside the "Paul's Groups" category?

I'm probably going to just rename Last Warning. I suppose I could create another subforum, move related threads in, and make this into an archive forum, but I feel like we already have a whole lot of subforums for how little traffic Crossroads gets. I'll burn that bridge when we get there, I guess.

[Dibígo LeMuze]

This message will be moved to the new location when it exists...

Character concepts:

Thogg Storymasher of the Bloodspoils Tribe, a half-giant Barbarian/Bard (Barbaribard?). Thogg is a very energetic rallying cry to his fellow barbarians on a raid, enticing them into a stronger frenzy, allowing the chaos to envelop their enemies in bloody fury. When not singing for the cause, Thogg himself would join the fray. If starting at level one, we can ignore the +2 strength and stomp ability until leveling, when other characters gain second level and Thogg instead gains the full racial repertoire (Level Adjustment). The half-giant is a System Reference Document psionic race, and I assure you I'll never want to add a psionic class. If Jack is not comfortable with this proposal, I will opt for Bear below.

Bear Foot (formerly named Baerfik Axeclaw), dwarf Sorceror/Fighter/Dragon Disciple. Some masters students at Grangley University thought it a good idea to educate a barbarian as a wizard. After a few years of trying with limited success (he basically learned so little that he picked things up on his own, passing as a wizard despite being a sorcerer in much the same way some high-school athletes graduate without reading skills), his benefactors lost interest (they needed a successful project to graduate!) and kicked him out of the school. Future: without the ties to his barbaric heritage, he then proceeds to live as a fighter, only to discover his draconic heritage. The plan would be Sorcerer 1 or 2 and then Fighter until qualified for the Dragon Disciple class, to be taken all the way through 10, then to either another prestige class, Barbarian, or back to a previous class).

[Cuthbert]

ravu said:

This message will be moved to the new location when it exists...

Character concepts:

Thogg Storymasher of the Bloodspoils Tribe, a half-giant Barbarian/Bard (Barbaribard?). Thogg is a very energetic rallying cry to his fellow barbarians on a raid, enticing them into a stronger frenzy, allowing the chaos to envelop their enemies in bloody fury. When not singing for the cause, Thogg himself would join the fray. If starting at level one, we can ignore the +2 strength and stomp ability until leveling, when other characters gain second level and Thogg instead gains the full racial repertoire (Level Adjustment). The half-giant is a System Reference Document psionic race, and I assure you I'll never want to add a psionic class. If Jack is not comfortable with this proposal, I will opt for Bear below.

Bear Foot (formerly named Baerfik Axeclaw), dwarf Sorceror/Fighter/Dragon Disciple. Some masters students at Grangley University thought it a good idea to educate a barbarian as a wizard. After a few years of trying with limited success (he basically learned so little that he picked things up on his own, passing as a wizard despite being a sorcerer in much the same way some high-school athletes graduate without reading skills), his benefactors lost interest (they needed a successful project to graduate!) and kicked him out of the school. Future: without the ties to his barbaric heritage, he then proceeds to live as a fighter, only to discover his draconic heritage. The plan would be Sorcerer 1 or 2 and then Fighter until qualified for the Dragon Disciple class, to be taken all the way through 10, then to either another prestige class, Barbarian, or back to a previous class).

Okay, here are my thoughts after looking over half-giant:

Obviously, the bonus on reflex saves are balanced, as is the low-light vision, and from there, it just becomes the task of figuring out if what's left is balanced for taking a level. The ability scores are not a huge problem in my book, and I tend to think the various +2s don't make a hell of a difference. The psionic power is, I guess, a little more powerful than a feat, as it's basically a 20 foot cone trip that a lot of figher's will fail due its being a reflex save. The non-humanoid thing is overall beneficial, but only by a little because it prevents "enlarge person" from working as well. But then, casting enlarge person wouldn't provide most of the benefits, because half-giant has many of them:

My understanding is that a lot of half-giant's rules are engineered to make it large without actually making it large; they don't want it to have reach, but they want it to be big. My only problem is that, while obviously reach is a huge deal (as is wielding larger weapons), what they've done is give half-giant a lot of the other bonuses to being a large creature without the negative of not being able to fit into a five-foot square. I sort of don't understand why they didn't just outright make it large and specify that it didn't have reach or giga-weapons, but then, I suppose that would involve just as much complication.

All that being said, unless someone points out something obvious that I'm missing, considering power-creep, it's probably about on par with a level. To be honest, trying to work it out gives me a bit of a headache, but when I consider how much enjoyment I lose trying to keep track of balance with one little kink versus how much enjoyment you would lose from not playing a character concept you like, it's way more worth it for me to just bite the bullett and work my math-addled head through the minor problems it may cause. Oddly enough, it's possible the barbaribard multi-classing may kind of gimp the character even, but I think we'll mostly have to wait and see. Plus, it is one hell of a funny character concept to have a singing sort of jolly green giant with a bunch of little buddies, and I want to try to make roleplaying more important anyway. Do you know what alignment you're thinking of playing?

Assuming, for whatever reason, you opt for the dwarf, I think, gameplay-wise, you're kind of going to lose power for quite a few levels; I can't for the life of me figure out how the hell cross-class skills are allowed to max out when you multi-class, but even assuming it's the generous way and you only take the single level of sorceror and just kind of suck your skill points into knowledge (arcana), you lose a lot of base attack and a lot of the abilities aren't going to be very beneficial to a fighter. The ability scores and natural armor are nice, but the bonus spells and breath weapon won't exactly be that great at your caster level and with your weapon damage, and it's going to be awkward working the claws and bite around the fighter progression feats (given the placement of the prestige class) or getting them to break DR. Once you hit about fifteenth level, it'll really kick in for you, but until then, I have absolutely no problem with the concept, I just think combat is going make to you frown.

So basically, either is alright.

[Dibígo LeMuze]

admin said:

Okay, here are my thoughts after looking over half-giant: [...] The ability scores are not a huge problem in my book, and I tend to think the various +2s don't make a hell of a difference.

+2 Str is a major boon, especially without TWO corresponding penalties; a half-orc is +2 Str for -2 Int and -2 Cha. If we look at the difference from half-orc to half-giant, it's +2 Int, +2 Cha, +2 Con, -2 Dex. That's a lot. For non-finesse fighter-types, +2 Str is a free level, which is why it's so carefully balanced (see below for table).

The psionic power is, I guess, a little more powerful than a feat, as it's basically a 20 foot cone trip that a lot of figher's will fail due its being a reflex save.

Agreed. I think it's fine as a level-based ability, thus it contributes to the ECL and I proposed gaining this (and the +2 Str) on Thogg's second character level as a Level Adjustment instead of a class level.

My understanding is that a lot of half-giant's rules are engineered to make it large without actually making it large; they don't want it to have reach, but they want it to be big. My only problem is that, while obviously reach is a huge deal (as is wielding larger weapons), what they've done is give half-giant a lot of the other bonuses to being a large creature without the negative of not being able to fit into a five-foot square. I sort of don't understand why they didn't just outright make it large and specify that it didn't have reach or giga-weapons, but then, I suppose that would involve just as much complication.

I really like the way they handled this aspect ... it's actually a large motivation for my wanting to build the character. Had I not just played Ravu (LN monk), I'd likely try to build my Tick-like character (Mnk4/Pal4/Ftr4/prestige) out of this (instead of from a bugbear as previously intended).

Oddly enough, it's possible the barbaribard multi-classing may kind of gimp the character even, but I think we'll mostly have to wait and see. Plus, it is one hell of a funny character concept to have a singing sort of jolly green giant with a bunch of little buddies, and I want to try to make roleplaying more important anyway. Do you know what alignment you're thinking of playing?

Yes, the multi-classing is a bit crippling by design, to counter the possibility of dealing more damage than should be appropriate. Yes, it is perhaps too crippling, since Thogg won't be able to sing and rage at the same time. This character would almost certainly be chaotic good (both classes ban lawful alignments).

Assuming, for whatever reason, you opt for the dwarf, I think, gameplay-wise, you're kind of going to lose power for quite a few levels; I can't for the life of me figure out how the hell cross-class skills are allowed to max out when you multi-class, but even assuming it's the generous way and you only take the single level of sorceror and just kind of suck your skill points into knowledge (arcana), you lose a lot of base attack and a lot of the abilities aren't going to be very beneficial to a fighter. The ability scores and natural armor are nice, but the bonus spells and breath weapon won't exactly be that great at your caster level and with your weapon damage, and it's going to be awkward working the claws and bite around the fighter progression feats (given the placement of the prestige class) or getting them to break DR. Once you hit about fifteenth level, it'll really kick in for you, but until then, I have absolutely no problem with the concept, I just think combat is going make to you frown.

Skill points are allocated at 2 points per rank for cross class skills, but if a skill is a class skill for ANY of your classes, the maximum ranks is 3+level. This means that Bear will need at least an intelligence of 10 to qualify for Dragon Disciple for level 6 (Int 9 or less would give him only one skill point per level, which would qualify Bear for the class at 10th level).

Assuming progression of SFFFF DDDDD DDDDD to level 15, the places that do not gain base attack are S1, D1, D5, D9. Dragon Disciple gains +2 strength at levels D2 and D4, and +4 strength at D10. Here's a hasty table showing my logic, assuming initial strength of 18 and discarding non-class based boosts to strength (belt, character level gain, manuals, etc):

Level	Fighter BAB+Str	Proposed BAB+Str	Rogue BAB+Str
1	5	S1 4	4
2	6	F1 5	5
3	7	F2 6	6
4	8	F3 7	7
5	9	F4 8	7
6	10/5	D1 8	8
7	11/6	D2 10	9
8	12/7	D3 11/6	10/5
9	13/8	D4 13/8	11/6
10	14/9	D5 13/8	11/6
11	15/10/5	D6 14/9	12/7
12	16/11/6	D7 15/10	13/8
13	17/12/7	D8 16/11	14/9
14	18/13/8	D9 16/11	15/10/5
15	19/14/9	D10 19/14/9	15/10/5

There are obvious deficiencies in base attack at certain points, but they are compensated later on. The biggest holes are the underpowered bonus spells for the Dragon Disciple and the lack of extra attacks due to lower actual BAB. This is a grappler or a tripper, and the Practiced Spellcaster feat would be mandatory.

At some point before 10th level, going past level 4 in Dragon Disciple would need to be revisited; Bear might simply end his draconic development, or might pause it in pursuit of furthering his spellcasting.

So basically, either is alright.

Good to hear ... I haven't set anything in stone (I might not even use either of them), but I think I'm leaning on Thogg.

[Greg]

So long as we're solidifying concepts:

Angus MacTavish - a dwarven abjurer from Portinhelm. Probably sent to study at the magisterium in Lyrinlaia, possibly with an escort from the dwarven kingdom. He's a battlemage in training, but not of the blowing-everything-up mentality. More of the keep-us-from-being-blown-up-while-Grobnir-over-there-goes-for-your-ankles mentality. He's a lawful good fella, worships Syd (though not in a fervent-religious-nutjob way), and has been accused of not having the proper respect for the "art" of magic. He was not stuffed into his locker at wizard school.

Not particularly sure on the build (aside from specialist wizard, abjurer. I'll be dropping Enchantment, because it is for wusses. And Necromancy, because it ain't very dwarven).

-Greg

[Paul]

My current plan is to play a CG cloistered cleric of Nell. I have some plans for character but as for Jack fitting me in, as I will have lots of knowledge skills he could make me a teacher if he wants. Although as a teacher, since he made the Hogwarts analogy, he would likely be similar to the professor of the dark arts from book 3 (best analogy I could think of). Although I do not yet have a personality set in stone, he would likely have just strarted teaching, as he is first level and rather young. Maybe even a grad student. Question for Jack, is there a list of humans by region up yet? If not which arch types do you think you will use.

[Cuthbert]

tasslehoff220 said:

Question for Jack, is there a list of humans by region up yet? If not which arch types do you think you will use.

I'm not sure I know what you mean, to be honest, but assuming I'm parsing this right you mean different types of humans.

I'm mostly not connecting race (I'm talking humans here and not the game mechanic with drawf, human, etc) with culture in this world, which is why I've been urging PCs to stay away from Oriental Adventures. The region most of the campaign takes in is primarily Western, I guess, in that the common tongue is English and religion isn't collectivist, but you could still find monks or Druids where you'd expect to find them, based on any individual kingdom's culture. The closest I have in terms of real world/fantasy world geography connections with regard to culture is that the people in the desert use a lot of scimitars.

If you want to think of the racial and cultural make-up of the world think of Chrono Cross, I guess: the game takes place in a tiny archipelago but people like like whatever the hell the developers want them to look like, and while all of them speak English, they frequently have accents that suit their personality (and if you guys think I'm going ten seconds without doing a silly voice or an accent for an NPC, you've forgotten who I am). Basically, culturally your character's variance is going to be based on what kingdom he comes from, and racially, you can make him look like whatever you want to, because the NPCs aren't going to respond to it; if I deal with racism it will be of the "elves are sissies and dwarves are drunkards" variety rather than the "go back to the desert, darkie" kind. I am probably going to picture your character to look like you with elf ears or whatever, I can't help doing it.

If this bothers you because of the logical problems with having a racially integrated medieval world, just think "A wizard did it!" and be assured that I actually do have a perfectly reasonable explanation as to how the world ended up the way it did (I do!)

[orphen]

yo jack here is summoner domain from Complete Arcane
Domain: +2 on caster lvl for conjuration spells
1-summon monster 1
2-summon monster 2
3-summon monster3
4-lesser planar ally
5-summon monster5
6-planar ally
7-summon monster7
8-Greaterplanarally
9-gate

[Cuthbert]

okay that sounds fine and i guess we can give it to The Nameless

[Paul]

Jack, can you give me a list of PC names and the NPC's we met? If you do I'll write an update for the first session. I have a sort of draft but it has very few names right now.